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and hand certain concessions to people like bart stupak in order to get the affordable care act through. and i thought that was lincolnian. he had to say for four years, "i'm evolving towards same sex marriage," before he could say, "i believe in same sex marriage." but you knew of course barack obama in 2007 understood the difference between secular marriage and religious marriage. and of course he believed that gay men and lesbians should marry on the same equal legal footing. he couldn't say it then. and he took four years. and when he picked the moment to say it, it was the exact perfect moment to say it. and it worked and it happened. and it's a history changing thing. >> i was going to ask you about that, i'm glad you brought it up, i was going to ask you because you and your partner, your husband, were the first gay married couple to appear in the new york times vows column. yet, here was obama whom you were supporting cautious, holding back, letting others take the lead, not saying anything to publicly reinforce the commitment you had made. >> i understand that politics in a dem
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